Waking Up With Sam Harris #62 – What is True? (with Jordan B. Peterson)

In this episode of the Waking Up podcast, Sam Harris speaks with psychologist Jordan B. Peterson about freedom of speech and the nature of truth.

Jordan B. Peterson is a clinical psychologist and Professor at the University of Toronto. He formerly taught at Harvard University and has published numerous articles on drug abuse, alcoholism, and aggression. He is the author of Maps of Meaning: The Architecture of Belief.

Christopher Hitchens destroys religion

1
00:00:00,000 –> 00:00:03,003
If anyone thinks that there’s a question

2
00:00:03,003 –> 00:00:07,772
having once heard me thinks is a
question I answered poorly or adequately

3
00:00:08,069 –> 00:00:11,340
or badly or failed to answer at all i
would like to challenge me

4
00:00:11,034 –> 00:00:15,623
I’d happily give them five minutes but
I’ve i have so say shot my build

5
00:00:15,929 –> 00:00:19,980
otherwise it is there anyone who would
like to charge me

6
00:00:20,055 –> 00:00:23,954
yes Peter

7
00:00:24,449 –> 00:00:32,340
if you spend your whole life trying to
convince people that there is why don’t

8
00:00:32,034 –> 00:00:37,035
you just stay all was the repeat that
was the country and the question is if

9
00:00:37,044 –> 00:00:41,079
there if there is no God why spend
you’re watching career are trying to

10
00:00:41,079 –> 00:00:44,085
refute that when I just leave it alone
and stay home

11
00:00:44,085 –> 00:00:54,134
fair enough well it’s it’s not my it
isn’t my whole career for one thing it’s

12
00:00:54,899 –> 00:01:01,320
become a major preoccupation of my life
though in the last eight or nine years

13
00:01:01,032 –> 00:01:10,095
especially since September 11 2001 to
try and help generate an opposition to

14
00:01:10,095 –> 00:01:15,168
theocracy and it’s depredations
internationally that that that is now

15
00:01:16,068 –> 00:01:21,150
probably my main political reputation to
help people in afghanistan in somalia in

16
00:01:22,005 –> 00:01:28,124
Iraq and Lebanon Israel to resist those
who sincerely want to encompass the

17
00:01:28,619 –> 00:01:31,770
destruction of civilization and
sincerely believe they have got on this

18
00:01:31,077 –> 00:01:35,103
side in wanting to do so the thing maybe
i will take the few minutes just to say

19
00:01:36,003 –> 00:01:40,068
something that I find repulsive about
especially monotheistic messianic

20
00:01:40,068 –> 00:01:45,129
religion in it with a large part of
itself it quite clearly do wants us all

21
00:01:46,029 –> 00:01:46,898
to die

22
00:01:47,159 –> 00:01:51,570
it wants this world come to an end you
can tell the yearning for things to be

23
00:01:51,057 –> 00:01:55,110
over whenever you read any of its real
text or listen to any of its real

24
00:01:56,001 –> 00:02:01,005
authentic spokesman not the sort of the
pathetic apologies to sometimes

25
00:02:01,005 –> 00:02:03,084
masquerade for those who talk

26
00:02:04,029 –> 00:02:09,608
there was a famous spokesman for this in
in Virginia until recently about the

27
00:02:09,869 –> 00:02:16,290
rapture say that do those of us who’ve
chosen rightly will be gathered to the

28
00:02:16,029 –> 00:02:17,055
arms of Jesus

29
00:02:17,055 –> 00:02:20,061
leaving all the rest of you behind if
we’re in a car

30
00:02:20,061 –> 00:02:23,157
it’s your lookout that car won’t have a
driver anymore if we’re if we’re pilot

31
00:02:24,057 –> 00:02:26,058
that’s your lookout that plane will
crash

32
00:02:26,067 –> 00:02:30,105
we will be with Jesus and the rest of
you can go straight to hell

33
00:02:31,065 –> 00:02:36,102
the the eschatological element that is
inseparable from Christianity if you

34
00:02:37,002 –> 00:02:41,004
don’t believe that there is to be an
apocalypse there is going to be an end

35
00:02:41,022 –> 00:02:46,101
as a separation of the sheep and the
goats a condemnation final one

36
00:02:47,052 –> 00:02:50,130
then you’re not really a believer and
the contempt for the things of this

37
00:02:51,003 –> 00:02:56,016
world shows through all of them it’s
well put in an old rhyme from a an

38
00:02:56,043 –> 00:03:00,135
English exclusive brethren sector says
that we are the pure and chosen few

39
00:03:02,004 –> 00:03:05,453
and all the rest of jammed there’s room
enough in health for you

40
00:03:05,489 –> 00:03:10,920
we don’t want heaven crammed you can
tell it when you see the extreme Muslims

41
00:03:10,092 –> 00:03:10,167
talk

42
00:03:11,067 –> 00:03:15,129
they cannot wait they cannot wait for
death and destruction to overtake can

43
00:03:16,029 –> 00:03:22,035
overwhelm the world they can’t wait for
for of what i would call without

44
00:03:22,035 –> 00:03:28,086
ambiguity a final solution when you look
at the israeli settlers paid for often

45
00:03:28,086 –> 00:03:32,495
by American tax dollars decide if they
can steal enough land from other people

46
00:03:33,269 –> 00:03:38,310
and get all the Jews into the Promised
Land and all the non Jews out of it then

47
00:03:38,031 –> 00:03:42,123
finally the Jewish people we will be
worthy of the return of the Messiah and

48
00:03:43,023 –> 00:03:46,068
there are Christians in this country you
consider it their job to help this

49
00:03:46,068 –> 00:03:52,086
happen so that Armageddon can occur so
the painful business of living as humans

50
00:03:52,086 –> 00:03:56,172
and studying civilization and trying to
acquire learning and knowledge and

51
00:03:57,072 –> 00:04:03,075
health and medicine and to push mother
can all be scrapped and and the the cult

52
00:04:03,075 –> 00:04:09,120
of death can take over that to me is a
hideous thing in an eschatological terms

53
00:04:10,002 –> 00:04:11,004
in end times

54
00:04:11,022 –> 00:04:15,121
terms on its own hateful idea hateful
price

55
00:04:15,319 –> 00:04:19,342
doctors and hateful theory but very much
to be opposed in our daily lives where

56
00:04:19,549 –> 00:04:22,160
there are people who sincerely mean it

57
00:04:22,016 –> 00:04:26,063
who want who want to ruin the good
relations that could exist between

58
00:04:26,063 –> 00:04:30,472
different peoples nations and races
countries tribes ethnicities

59
00:04:31,082 –> 00:04:36,155
whoo-hoo say openly say they love death
more than we love life and who are

60
00:04:37,055 –> 00:04:39,484
betting with God on their side

61
00:04:39,979 –> 00:04:45,050
they’re right about that so when I say
in is the subject of my book that I

62
00:04:45,005 –> 00:04:50,018
think religion poisons everything I’m
not just doing what publishers like and

63
00:04:50,018 –> 00:04:52,043
coming up with the provocative subtitle

64
00:04:52,043 –> 00:04:57,071
I mean to say it effects us in the in
our most basic integrity it says we

65
00:04:57,071 –> 00:05:01,130
can’t be moral without Big Brother
without a totalitarian permission means

66
00:05:02,003 –> 00:05:06,592
we can’t be good to one another as we
can’t do with without this we we must be

67
00:05:06,889 –> 00:05:13,160
afraid we must also be forced to love
someone who we fear the essence of

68
00:05:13,016 –> 00:05:17,069
sadomasochism at the essence of
abjection the essence of the

69
00:05:17,069 –> 00:05:22,118
master-slave ranger and that knows that
death is coming and can’t wait to bring

70
00:05:23,018 –> 00:05:23,084
it on

71
00:05:23,084 –> 00:05:28,843
I say this is evil and though i do some
nights stay home

72
00:05:29,599 –> 00:05:34,820
I enjoy more the nights when I go out
and fight against this ultimate

73
00:05:34,082 –> 00:05:35,177
wickedness and ultimate stability

74
00:05:36,077 –> 00:05:40,966
thank you